A Chat with Taryn Williams from TheRight.Fit

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Gen caught up with Taryn Williams, Founder of TheRight.Fit.

theright.fit is a global marketplace to connect talent with brands & clients, locally and around the world. It's a simple and beautiful way to find the right talent for your next project. It's a community of models, actors, photographers, makeup artists, stylists, and more, all in one place for you to book in a simple and seamless way.

Watch the video here or look below to read the transcript:

G: Hello, we are trying again.

T: Hey guys.

G: So, Taryn who are you?


T: Hey guys, thank you for joining us. So, My name's Taryn Williams, I'm the founder of WINK Models and TheRightFit. So, I found my first business WINK Models about 10 years ago now it's very much traditional offline modeling agencies, so we have offices in Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane and about 650 models Australia wide. So about, gosh, four years ago now and I got to a point with that business where we just couldn't continue to scale. Basically, every time we were hiring and recruiting new models, we were having to add focus and it just wasn't a viable scalable business so I decided to build an end-to-end onboarding talent management and payroll integration software, so it was my first sort of foray into technology and it really transformed that business. It basically allowed us to continue to scale to continue to add new talent, removed all the key man dependencies and opportunities of human error in the business was definitely a really time-consuming process but definitely really worthwhile one and I just totally fell in love with building and solving problems with technology and I kind of see the opportunity for a two-sided marketplace for the creative industry. There's a lot of things changing in our industry during the sort of 18 months that I was building that first product for WINK Models and they were soon advent of social media influence our brands needing to create more content than ever before to be these always on social channels the move to smaller bits of stackable digital content so smaller pieces of video that lived online for shorter periods of time and more relatable talent inquired for campaigns so that's where the idea for The Right Fit came from so it really is a two-sided market place for creative talent we have everything from photographers here makeup artists, influencers, stylists, social media influencers, videographers. There's about 17 different categories and on the other side of the market we have clients. Producers, PR agencies, right through to direct brands and startups advertising agencies.

G: Thanks Johanna.


G: Thank gosh.

T: Yay! Nailed it. Thanks Johanna. Yeah, so that was sort of the initial idea of TheRightFit. We've now had about six and a half thousand talent on the platform. We screen every candidate on the platform and then they can, clients can simply come to the platform, post a job, think of it like an Airtasker or a freelance of creative community. So you can post a call-out saying I need a videographer for a shoot tomorrow and I’ve got a budget of $1,000 and then videographers who are based in your state and in your location and available for your job can put themselves forward you can chat back and forth on the platform and books mean and we manage all the annoying admin paperwork, insurances, heavy-lifting all of the boring stuff so you guys can get back to doing what you do well.

G: Awesome. So, you had your original Business WINK Models, how was that transition over to handing that over to do this?

T: Yeah it was definitely really scary. Obviously it's my firstborn and I love it so much but I also had really itchy feet so I've been in that business for probably about seven or eight years by that point and I thankfully building this tech product you know it had really removed a lot of key man dependencies so all of the sort of client information and talent information was maintained in our you know WINK database now so and it was, I don't want to say easy it was it was personally very challenging and, and scary, stepping away from the business. But I have an amazing team who make the magic happen on a day-to-day basis.

G: Which is awesome and how do you, what was the biggest learning, you think you had as a leader for the kind of steadying your personal issues aside with it to kind of move the team forward?

T: Yeah I think I’ve put a lot of processes in place so like reporting processes so that I felt like I guess I still had control so I knew that the team were really clear on when to come to me, that they could still come to me if they had questions and advice and put some sort of processes in place so that okay these are the things that will come to me, these are things that will not, don't need my sign-off and setting just a once a month board meeting so that you know they could come to me, update me, and that I got sort of involved in what was going on and then left them to their own devices and they've gone on to thrive and it's sort of you know got a whole new life now which is awesome.

G: It was sweet now, right?

T: Yeah, yeah, which is, it's exciting. It's cool to see them doing her own thing and you know I see things in the news and I'm like “oh my god that's awesome, I didn’t know you were doing that!”

G: Proud mom moment.


T: Yeah, totally proud mom moment.

G: That’s awesome.

T: Yeah.

G: So, TheRightFit then, you know, day one, how did you guys get started? How did you kind of get your first traction?

T: So, we obviously have a lot of key learnings from building the platform from WINK, so I knew kind of a lot of the features and functionality that I wanted, obviously sat down and map that out this time, smartly, built an MVP instead of just building a whole system.

G: Yep.

T: So, I’ve built an MVP and we started on-boarding our supply side, so the talent side first and obviously thankfully we had a pretty good supply side for my little black book of contact for WINK Models and so started on-boarding you know clients, talent photographers, you know makeup artists, stylists and we launched with about 450 talent.

G: Wow, that’s great.

T: Yeah, which was pretty, pretty awesome so we had sort of like a three-month soft launch where it was just talent on-boarding themselves and going through that process and then, then launch the client side of the database and inside of building that so again we had a pretty good little black book of contacts to go to and say “Look, this is a new platform, this is how it works and give it a try”, get some feedback. We obviously spend a lot of time in beta testing sitting down with clients, going “Okay what would you need, what features, and functionalities would you use?”

G: Yeah and you use it yourself, as a client I guess?


T: Yeah yeah, definitely. Um definitely have gone on and booked you know photographers for events and things like that that we needed so, going through the process yourself I think is super important.

G: Yeah.

T: And we totally knew that.

G: But with trying to get client or I guess one side or supply side on at the beginning would you do that process again if you're going to start another startup?

T: Yeah definitely. I think, I think having some really clear messaging about you know what your value proposition is you know people are inundated with you know, messages on a day-to-day basis. I think you have to have a really clear, this is why you should [do it] use us, this is the you know the benefits, this is why and this is how it's different

G: Yeah.

T: And we were really asking people to change their way of doing things.

G: Yes.

T: So traditionally they would go and hold a production company or you know a talent agency if they needed some of the services we were providing them so it really was a mind shift for them going “Okay”, like an Airtasker would have gone through, “Okay now you don't need to do that, you can come to an online platform here’s what you need and you can find freelancers to do that work for you.” So…

G: That’s fantastic.

T: Yeah so getting them to change that mindset, so definitely making sure you sort of mapped out all of the viewpoints that people are going to have when they're using a new platform and then walk backwards from there.

G: That's great and so [supply and] demand is obviously a challenging one for all two-sided marketplaces.

T: Totally, all the marketplaces.

G: What are the things that are the big no-no’s that you've learnt along the way? The two-sided marketplaces that didn’t get scaled.

T: Yeah, I think it's really important to try and find that liquidity point so obviously we're in a pretty unique position unlike maybe at cleaning marketplace or courier marketplace where everyone that joins expects to have a job every single day or wants to have a job every single day. In our marketplace obviously, peoples’ skill sets are quite unique so a drone videographer isn't going to get as many bookings as is maybe a fashion photographer.

G: Yeah.

T: So, there's a little bit of an understanding in our marketplace but obviously trying to get that liquidity point right so that people are coming both sides of your marketplace are obviously coming and having a great experience. You don't want clients coming, posting a job and not being able to find a person that matches their brief.

G: No one wants that.

T: And same for the talent, you don't want them signing up and then waiting you know, crickets, for months going “I haven't received one single job request.”

G: Yeah.

T: So, I think you need to really make sure that when you launch you've got you know a little bit of you know supply and demand on both sides, ready to go and hopefully some existing bookings that you can start manually servicing, may be before you've got striving marketplace happening.

G: Yeah. That's fantastic and what are the like the three things you definitely do if you're going to start, if you're a startup today?

T: Get great people around you so hire an awesome team if you can from day one. Obviously, it's hard, you can't go to many… but try and get great people around you so if you can't afford to hire them, try and get them as mentors or as contractors or in some sort of capacity because I think it's so important there's only so much that you can do on your own so I definitely get great people around you. Go to lots of networking events and ask lots of questions so or join groups or you know I think that's really important there's always someone who's been through this before, definitely for us with marketplaces and there's so many amazing marketplaces out there so getting in front of them, asking them how did you do this, how did you build out your, how did you reach this lucrative, what pain points did you go through, growth hacks, anything like that you know there's always someone who will be help, like helpful and happy to give you an hour of their time over coffee

G: Or a [cupcake].


T: Or a tall glass of wine!


T: And sit down and help you solve those problems, definitely. God the third one…

G: Doesn’t have to be a third one.

T: Third one probably building stages I think. Try not to go too big too quickly and release a whole bunch of new functionality we definitely probably went through that and released a few way too many things all at once and it can be a little bit overwhelming to marketplace, so I think get really clear on each feature. Is it going to add value? And how's it going to add value and how can you clearly communicate it to … my opponents.

G: Yeah and so advisory boards, what are your thoughts on that? For startups.

T: Yeah, it's so important, it's so important. I think I have a sort of I have a formal board and then I have an informal advisory board, amazing. I couldn’t do it without both of them so I think it's a really, really important if you can get the right people around you, you can go to for advice and I have different people for really different things so whether if it’s an e-commerce play or whether it's solving a marketing growth problem or marketplace problem, you know I have different people that I'll go “Hey you know this person is really great in that space” or HR you know, who am I going to call and go to and yeah sit down and keeping them abreast of your journey and you know what you're working on and keeping them in the loop. People want to help other people so think if you can build them out and it's so great to have someone to hold you accountable and say, “Okay well you said you were going to you know implement these things to help the team culture or whatever”

G: What have you done?


T: What have you done? Exactly you know it's been a month since I saw you

G: Just been having a cocktail!


T: Totally, totally. You’ve been so busy being busy which is so easy to do as we all know.

G: Yeah.

T: So, I try and lock mine in as breakfast meetings once a month and go and see them

G: Kick off the day, before it gets started.

T: Exactly before everyone's day gets away from them like “I’m too busy.”

G: And so how do you then as a leader keep pushing yourself to keep evolving you know you as a leader day one and what are the skillsets that you needed to drive the businesses in a very different way, they are now?

T: Yeah. Totally.

G: And what is required to drive this business?

T: Yeah.

G: So how do you keep evolving?

T: Yeah it's super challenging and that's definitely something that I’ve been thinking a lot about lately, because you do, you kind of level up yeah like you get to this place and you're like “Cool, I've got this, like I'm on top of this. Oh! Wait, no we're going to another … like here we are, going into a new market or you know doing into something new and you're like “geez I need to be a better leader, I need to be a better CEO, I need to be a better board member, I need to be a better human being, I need to be a better friend, a better boss”. I’d say you do have to constantly keep evolving and it's challenging so it's really hard this is why I definitely have like one close mentor who I work with on a regular basis and then a lot of reading of books.

G: Yeah.

T: Definitely like the I …

G: Your go-to books.

T: The Hard Things by Ben Horowitz is amazing. I think it really helps to keep things in perspective about how tough the startup journey is. There's another one called Legacy, … all blacks which is really awesome so there's a few in that space that I just really, really love … yeah so I think constantly reading about other people's journey to try and keep it in perspective and go, okay like here's some tips here's the things that I can be doing to try and better myself and then recognizing your skills gap and I think letting your team be really brutally honest there go okay like you are sucking at whatever you know like you know you've got no one starts out being an awesome CEO like let's be honest you know especially at our age  you know you're going to have bits that you're not great at and that's okay and so you either hire someone who can fill those for you or you go, “I actually really want to be really awesome at that”, I’m going to take some courses and I'm going to read some books and I'm going to try make it active ….

G: And assess yourself constantly.

T: Yeah.

G: That's just great and so cofounder is a tricky one in the space you'll notice of different, different opinions on this thing whether you know investors won’t invest unless there are two co-founders, all that.

T: Yeah.

G: Slightly changed now where they won’t shoebox people as much…

T: Yeah.

G: What are your thoughts on cofounders? Do you need them? Do you not? And how do you go about finding one?

T: Yeah and I think it’s a really interesting one I think you have to have some sort of skill it's amazing how many people come to me and they're like I'm going to launch a business in something that I have no idea about like and I'm not a tech founder I'm like okay what sort of skill are you bringing to table here? My personal opinion and this is just mine is it you either need to have deep domain expertise, really understand that space or be the tech founder. So, I think you can't be neither, ideally if you could have both, awesome. That is great if you've got an amazing person who you have a great synergy with who you trust who, because finding a cofounder is tough. I know you hear so many horror stories about yeah but and they're like a marriage you know I mean like this is you literally cannot get out of these things, you’re supposed to be in it for life. Actually, probably harder than marriage.

G: It’s so hard.


T: So, I mean ideally if you can have, if you've got someone who complements your strengths and weaknesses that's great. Definitely, but otherwise I don't think get too hung up… a lot of people like I can't do this project because I can’t find a cofounder. And I don't think that's necessarily as you say as important maybe as it was where it used to be probably someone who had the main expertise and someone who could build the tech. Now I think it is not definitely by no means easy to get access to tech resources but it's definitely become a lot more affordable I would say to get access to at least building an MVP and a barrier to entry in that space, so you can go out, build something, test ride and you get a proof of concept and then go okay well I know that this is yeah, this is viable. Now I can build a team around that.

G: I’ve forgotten who said it but ideas are cheap, its execution is gold and you know people who come in saying “I'm worth you know 10 percent or whatever the percent or whatever the dollar figure, just because they've got an idea doesn't necessarily mean they’re going to be able to execute … alright.

T: So true.

G: It’s nuts but there's also a lot of free tools out there to learn how to code yourself and put websites together or even landing pages which never you know …things like Sharetribe, the Marketplacer which, the days of one chip when we first started I would definitely have done that.

T: Yeah. So True.

G: Whereas it wasn't around so it's an evolving market. Great programs like that, Ruby on rail oh sorry Rubygirls, these thing's RubyMines a great one tool to kind of play around with, or just trying to a website up, code academy is a good one.

T: Yes, yeah.

G: Have you tried that out?

T: Yes, yeah.

G: Good, cool. Leading the charge, lead by example.


T: Yeah and I think you’re exactly right like it's just about digging in and seeing what’s out there and like you're constantly like I'm subscribed, sign me in like …you're like oh cool I didn't know I'll jump in and have a play like maybe that's something that might be useful to us so maybe we can build a new … with that. You know there's so many as you say off-the-shelf things now that…

G: Make it look more easy, accessible.


T: Exactly.

G: So, what's next for you girls?

T: Oh, god!

G: Team, sorry.

T: Yes. We do although we do have, yeah, we do yeah we do have more girls in the team than boys so we're like trying to lead by example in that one. Digital marketing manager’s a girl so yeah, but you've got the yeah, but you’ve got the cool pretty massage girl, we’d love that yeah, we’re coming to get you.


G: She is tall, and can actually you know she's a very smart, to say the least.


T: Yes, she’s a genius. So, what’s next for us, so obviously continuing to bed down in Australia build up in marketplace here and there's obviously just so much to do in this space which is awesome but then definitely looking a international markets as well so hopefully rolling out in Asia-Pacific in quarter one next year, which is exciting and then other highly fragmented creative markets so like the States and Europe. So one foot in front of the other though you know the big risks of marketplace you know as you go to be too quick and everyone gets bent.

G: So how old would you approach going to Southeast Asia? What is the planning behind the scenes to get that?

T: Yeah so, we're really lucky in that we have some quite great strategic partnerships out of Australia who have head offices in Singapore, so we'll be using that obviously as a little foothold into that market and we're already, so we've already tested markets and just to see if there is initial interest so I would definitely recommend that …. trying a new market, you don't need to go and set up an entire office and localize there and just start you know put up some landing pages and see if there's interest, run a few ads, see if you're actually going to generate business before you start going in, you know it’s expensive going there. Research what products are available, see if there's any easy way to sort of softly into the market without spending a fortune so that's definitely going to be our plan to see how much we can do from an Australian base and then once we know it's going to be a viable option, put someone on the ground, probably in Singapore, possibly Hong Kong. And then yes obviously testing our marketing strategy in the region so yes.

G: That’s awesome so city by city sounds like it's pretty sure for you guys so why are you taking that approach?

T: I think it's really important to make sure you have that liquidity point so we want to make sure that they're supplying and demand in our marketplace again it's a little bit different because people do travel their supply if they need to so if they're shooting in Japan they may be flying.

Oh my god, I see some of the jobs come through our platform so there’s one that’s recently for a week’s shoot in the Maldives …I need a holiday so bad. “Take me, I’ll do it for free, you don’t have to pay me.”

G: “Make sure the marketplace works.”


T: Exactly, exactly.

G: So, you’re scaling city by city, the economics, what are they the ones that you’d be look[ing] at when you're trying to launch a new city?

T: Yeah so for us obviously so we don't spend much money to acquire our supply side which is great, obviously. A lot of it's word of mouth and organic growth for us which is fantastic there's nothing out there like … marketplace which is really fantastic. So there's a lot of referrals, talents have a great experience obviously so the supply-side about I suppose grows really organically, we get about 250 applicants a day which is crazy so most of our families on the customer side of the marketplace and then that's a that's broken down across sort of social search, building out on SEO and content strategy so those things are obviously really important to us so then it's just tracking acquisition, customer lifetime, value of the customer, what's actually going to make it viable for us to continue buying customers and how much they are worth to us over time. I think they're really important things obviously to track in a market place in most businesses actually, make sense.

G: Yeah, definitely, so how did you understand those metrics like what where did you settle? Was there a mentor that gave you that feedback to kind of set up a framework or is it a book or a website? What can people look at to figure out their own business model?

T: Yeah I mean I think so we thought I spent a lot of time working with my mentor and I … when we were building out the original business plan back in I don’t know, 18 months ago or thereabout, working out okay what, what would we need for this business to actually be financially viable because it's great to be like so I'm going to launch a marketplace, I'm going to launch any business and sell stocks but if you don't actually know if it’s going to be financially  viable like what's your burn rate going to be per month, how many customers do you think you can find, how big is the market. Even if you’re just sitting down and even if you're not pitching going to the process of putting together what a pitch deck would look like so you know okay this is how big the market is, these are our competitors this is you know what our unique selling proposition is going to be so then so you've gone through that you've got okay well this is what the unit economics look like, we, they're going to be scalable, they're healthy, we're actually going to get the payback in month one or month three, we now we need to you know retain these clients for six months before that become viable or whatever. So making sure you go through that process because otherwise there's so many businesses that can you know you hear these horror stories … they're like spending a dollar 50 to earn a dollar you know it's not going to ever be viable.

G: Yeah so true.

T: Yeah.

G: So, finding the investment that in Australia doesn't mean the VC then basically stakes it up huge and if they spend to make you know …

T: Exactly.

G: So, what's the mentality that you see here in Australia and how did you approach getting funding?

T: Yeah and I think it's about finding people who are really aligned with what success looks like because there are definitely investors who'll be like just like grow go to me market you know just you know which may be what you want or it may make sense. Or you might be like this is our plan is how we want to execute so I think being clear as a founder what you want and then finding people who align with that so we were really strategic instead of made a bit of a hit list of like dream partners, what would they look like, what sort of skills would they have, what experience would they have, what could they bring to the table aside from just money… obviously money's great but I don’t want to say you can get money anywhere but you know …

G: You have a machine that prints money! Oh my god!


T: It’s just in the next room. [Laughter] So you know obviously getting money is important, but I think you can end up with some money or people who aren’t aligned with what success looks like.

G: Ended up fighting more.

T: Totally.

G: Focusing more on that than the business itself.

T: Yeah than the business itself. So … maybe it's like hit list and I always recommend this to people like who would you like dream investor be like I don't know I don't some expert in your field or someone who can really drive supply or demand whatever it is yeah, I'm going okay so we made a bit of a hit list and well …. and just went okay like this is what we're doing, this is the idea, this is the premise, we were like about two months old, you know it's a lot of blues about thinking you don't really have any metrics or traction or anything to show it at that stage but if you've gone to that process of going okay well we know we've got healthy and scalable unit economics, we know this is the size of the market, this is what we can do, you know would you be interested in helping us whether that’s as like an advisor, strategic partner and investor. I think that's a really good way to have conversations and hopefully investment will naturally sort of follow after that.

G: That's great and did you find that I try before you buy essentially so the arrangement was like dating before somebody invests is a better way to…

T: Definitely and I think it's so important to get to know each other do reverse due diligence obviously they don't get on you, make sure you call their other investments, a lot of people that have worked with them, and how do they work, what do they like they can be good people like spend time hanging out. You know this one is definitely like a marriage and like you legit can't get out of it okay you don't want to find out in six months’ time you're like wow like you are not what I thought at all so try and do as much as you can and find, there’s different investors for different people so like there's some people want really hands-off investors and who were like cool here's the money you know see you again next year or whatever. There's other people who want really hands-on, proactive, in the business, adding value, So working out what that looks like to you, what you want and then getting really, really clear with them this is what my expectations are of you as an investor this is what I want you to do and this is how I see our relationship working I even have a board seat you know what is all that going to be like. I think so many people say depressing like oh my gosh…. I should just take whatever is being…

G: Offered.

T: …me make sure you like and super understand that all of the things on the term sheet, make sure that if there's anything that you don't know, you ask, no one's going to think you are stupid. And if you know if you like know like I seriously can't agree with that like explain that to them …like here's my logic like why do you need that term or what is it supposed to protect or and you know hopefully you can arrive the place that there's no point signing something you’re not comfortable with. And this you know there's no harm in asking these questions and working to get to a place where you're both aligned on okay cool with both comfortable we both feel we need… never want to go in with someone feeling like well I just hope that I’m not fucked on the deal.

G: Yeah, definitely. So then as a startup, how do you value a business?

T: I mean, obviously the market will give you some sort of indications as to what sort of other deals are out there of similar size in the very early days it really comes down to me exactly like the passion have you executed before, you know how big is the market, and exactly and how can you justify that so it is really difficult and I think the really important thing is that you see so many of you here, so many startups going out and being “we're valued at twenty million dollars”, right? Day one you know it's a we haven't built anything yet, we’ve got no customer, but we think that we're like you have to be sensible and reasonable don't forget investors see deals all day every day, this is what they're best at. You go in with some sort of crazy expectation, it shows how naive you are but it's also going to fuck you for one round like if you're going in a super high valuation day one, what’s your next round going to look like? So be realistic and go okay well this is the gross we can achieve, this is what we want our next round to look like, at some point like you're obviously going to get diluted of each way through so think about that and be realistic and okay well this round should be this sort of size

G: Yeah, yeah no that makes perfect sense. From your experience then life after investment, people kind of have this mentality that oh great you raised some money, you're successful. Jump down, everybody go home now.

T: Oh my god! It’s so funny because everyone celebrates raising money what really, it's like…

G: We can build!


T: And it’s never a great time to celebrate it's like you know and I'm sure there's no like do you celebrate when you get the term sheet? Or do you celebrate when you finally all agreed on the term sheet? To celebrate when you sign the shareholders bit? Or do you celebrate when the money arrives? Like it isn't really actually a time and by the time like the cash actually hits you bank account you're like wow now it's like committed to all of these amazing guys we are like no one's got time to go out for lunch, so it is heads down, bums up. I definitely don't think you just it's it really it is a really interesting thing to celebrate and we hear about amazing businesses that have managed to scale without raising any investment. It’s like incredible. Yeah, so yeah, definitely like, I think that a lot of people get hyped on oh my god they raised $20 million or whatever and that's a sign of success, the metrics need to be right and you need to make sure you're raising the right amount of money for your business at the right time.

G: So, you know in the future as a leader do you see yourself always being in the right field or other businesses or you know what's the future for you Taryn?

T: Great question! God! I don’t know about later so like just trying to keep fresh …keep that keep the wheels turning every day. I don't know I mean obviously I’ve got a lot of work left to do in The Right Fit and I'm really excited about this opportunity you know growing it and scaling it internationally I think is, is definitely my passion for the next few years we've got a lot of hard work …. ahead of us so and that's definitely the next few years but I definitely love having little side projects and side hustles. Unfortunately, I don't have much time between WINK and The Right Fit right now but definitely once we sort of get at the other side of, fingers crossed, The Right Fit being a success definitely I would like to. I love investing in other companies, I love meeting other founders yeah so that will hopefully be the long-term goal or maybe even take a holiday I mean who knows right. I’ve heard they're amazing so yeah, I see pictures of other people having holidays, seems great yeah.

G: So, I actually forgot to ask one more question I'm sorry, personal branding, you're the guru in Australia for sure, hands down, the guru.

T: Thank you.

G: What would you suggest for startup founders to be doing? I mean what's the day one look like? What’s the you know, couple years in look like?

T: Yeah it definitely wasn't something that I made like a conscious plan to think about until probably the last two years it was really something that happened organically and it wasn't until someone said to me like you have a personal brand whether you choose to control it or not, like this will continue to evolve around you, you have to decide whether you can sit down and go okay these are my values, this is what I want to be aligned with, what does that look like and then how does that roll out in you know across social media, across the charities that I'm associated with, the board seats that I take so making more of a strategic approach I guess to what I was doing I think the best thing that you can do is sit down and get really, really clear on that goal in the face and go, okay what is it, what are my values, what are my company values and how does that align with making this a brand. I mean ideally get an amazing publicist or PR agent or if you come put it to itself they get all of this together so get a really great talent … together make sure that you've got great headshots and team shots and everyone media might need. Work out okay what kind of media do I want to be featured in, what would actually align with my business, do I want to be doing through magazine I don't know, like is that adding value to me and my company or not.

G: And do you just approach … PR tapes or is it journalists on board like, “Hey, can we chat about something?”

T: Yeah, I think and there's like this Source bottle which is like a free directory where you can look up leads, keep journalists saying I’m looking for someone who’s next … whatever. So there's lots of those out there now and then yeah just reach out to obviously in a professional and a nice way you know having something together a little bit of a bio on your business make sure obviously that your current webpage and socials are updated so it's really easy, the journalist needs expert in self-managed funds or whatever and you're coming to the top of their search results and your socials are up to date and you're known as an expert in that field so whether it's building out a personal website or whatever for that and making sure you’re their go-to and then just shooting them a little quick white notes ….exactly connecting with great people like Gen, who know everyone, who can put you forward thing.

G: So, no it's awesome, that's great advice and if you could have a superpower, anyone or what would you have? This is the one I ask everyone.

T: Oh my god! Probably pause time.

G: Oh yeah, I have never had that one!

T: Yeah you probably yes to be able to pause, because I think you're so guilty of this when you’re especially in startups and you're running so fast and like you're not often conscious of like what's going on and just to be able to stop and parade, know it and be like holy shit, like we've made all of this, holy shit like you know look at this, so you know Wow okay you're having a bad day, that's okay pause this moment, take a couple of deep breaths.

G: Yeah, that's good.

T: Probably just comes down to being present which I'm not great at either but yeah, I think definitely or being able to just pause time get a few emails done, before everyone else.

G: That’s awesome, thank you so much for your time

T: Thank you.

G: It’s great to catch up as always.

T: Thank you, always a pleasure. Thanks guys.

G: Guys we'll see you next time I'm tuned into Facebook page @Gen George, also check out all Taryn’s links so The Right Fit, sign up, check out the profile, do the process yourself, you never know you may be in the Maldives sometime soon.

T: With me, I’m coming with you, just to be clear.

G: I’d vote for that. All right, have a good one girls and boys and speak to you shortly, bye!